- DanielP [to PeterMR]:
- I just had a look at the transcript throught Laura's script, it looks quite good, better than what David is seeing now
- Marcus nods - the transcripts are just *great*.
- latypov [to Marcus]:
- i saw an ad about matrix class and i thought that i might be interested to participate in this project provided that nothing more challenging will not be offered to the numerical-minded people.
- PeterMR is working on a mechanism to capture pastes into a local file. Nearly there
- Marcus [to dan]:
- with the c++ and this converters the course is penetrating the whole environment :)
- PeterMR [to latypov]:
- what sort of numerical analysis are you inetrested in?
- Marcus [to latypov]:
- sure. 'Challenging': a numerical analysis person should soon be able to define his/her own projects.
- Marcus would like to hire BillH for this too, though, b/c of time constraints.
- PeterMR [to latypov]:
- about 1-2 years ago I discovered a matrix class from Australia. Forget the name. Quite proficient
- Marcus [to latypov]:
- what i may be able to offer (later) are some template-based classes of that type.
- in the lower end of that 'ladder' I have sketched in the article...
- latypov [to PeterMR]:
- i am more interested in the c++ features allowing one to deal with the "grid functions" also to define his own functions defined on edges/volumes etc . and to perform manupulations with them, like computing FD derivatives.
- PeterMR [to latypov.]:
- Did things like tridiagonalisation and worked hard on the symbolism (overloading) being attractive. Could look it out...
- Marcus doesnt believe in 'stack' and 'list' examples for physicists...
- PeterMR asks what FD is
- PeterMR agrees with marcus. One array does all
- Marcus says:
- finite difference
- (DanielP thinks: I like stacks and list, sorry )
- latypov says:
- matrix classes are challenging and interesting and useful too, but it looks to me that they are rather
- Marcus [to latypov]:
- yeah, this is exactly what my classes attempt to do.
- latypov says:
- covered by other people.
- PeterMR thinks that latypov might enjoy hacking at these classes. PMR got them
- for a PC. don't know whetehr they would compile today or whether they are
- being developed
- Marcus [to latypov]:
- the OOP point is: to think in data structures, find suitable ones and not get lost in terminology (of which C++ has a lot).
- DanielP [to mar]:
- Is there any specific agenda for today meeting?
- Marcus [to PeterMR]:
- why dont you send them and I make them available through the project page.
- PeterMR will try to fish them out tomorrow.
- Marcus [to DanielP]:
- well: you may have seen that I launched 'UNIT 2'...
- Marcus says:
- ..and I would like to avoid all the confusion of this week next time:
- (DanielP thinks: I think I have seen that )
- PeterMR [to DanielP]:
- - you are right. We need to cover some topics
- Marcus says:
- I had to spend another 2 days to finish chapter 2 b/c murray dropped it but w/o telling me so.
- latypov says:
- sorry, guys, i need to be running. thank you very much for this fruitful discussion.
- Marcus says:
- now, lemme remind you of the minimum before a unit can be announced - ok?
- Marcus bows
- DanielP waves latypov
- PeterMR [to dan]:
- think we should try to work out what speed we need to go at for most students
- latypov has disconnected.
- PeterMR says:
- some students seem to spend 2-3 hours/wk - that will be rather tight for later chapters?
- Marcus nods. Also, if the load to finalize a chapter is too big: let's distribute the work. e.g. bill hale has offered to join for chap3 programs.
- DanielP [to mar]:
- I don't know exactly what I should do for chap3
- Marcus [to PeterMR]:
- can I first finish this item, since it'll bother us every week.
- Marcus [to DanielP]:
- that's what I wanted to say:
- DanielP thanx
- Marcus says:
- I'll just sum up - you ask after
- 1) proofread chapter reading the programs in parallel. insert (as [...]) text wherever suitable.
- 2) compile/execute programs for one compiler at least. note problems in the compilation notes-template you have received. larger portions of text can also be put here - e.g. I did that whenever the text was VERY terse
- because it assumed C knowledge.
- DanielP [to mar]:
- For example the prog in chap3 has no line number at the moment
- Marcus [to DanielP]:
- Yes, that is the next point:
- Marcus says:
- 3) add missing markup to sample HTML programs and check that the CC programs are identical. Minimal markup: line numbers, results, links on top and bottom (to source file, PS, glossary - and to compilation notes).
- Assistants of the local psychology institute arrive to cart latypov off to their dream-research labs.
- DanielP [to mar]:
- the template chap3.cmp.html is fine with me
- Marcus says:
- the compilation notes of chap2 are more typical than for chap1 - here I did follow PeterMR's advice and addded 'return 0;' e.g.
- Marcus nods Dan - ok
- Marcus says:
- 4) while reading the text, add GLOSSARY entries:
- this means: write down the terms and a brief definition for each (cross checking with the existing glossary if you can) and send them simply (no markup) to benedetto.
- 5) if all this still leaves you with some time: add a brief summary - with anything YOU think the student should remember.
- PeterMR says:
- ah - benedetto does all the cross-links?
- Marcus [to PeterMR]:
- until chap1 I did them, then he learnt it (very well). he works remotely on DESY's ftp server! :)
- DanielP [to marc]:
- I know that it was in some mail message, but how do add missing markup for sample html prog
- Marcus says:
- please also fwd the mail to gna-c++-consultants: so I can alread put the text in the glossary (oh yeah: when adding a term, you must change the HTML of the CHAPTER, of course..(
- Marcus [to DanielP]:
- the samples are all pre-treated. unless you want to use one of the two available scripts (awk and c++), I think it can be done manually. complicated markup (<var> etc) is not a must, but would be nice. only line numbers and links are essential.
- Marcus says:
- When finished: wrap it all up, download a .tar.gz file at ftp.desy.ifh:/pub/incoming - and send me Email.
- Marcus yields.
- DanielP [to marc]:
- Is there a script for line number?
- Marcus [to DanielP]:
- no, i started wrtiing one but didnt finish....sorry. I use Emacs (rectangle)... :)
- Marcus says:
- just copying numbers as a rectangle and cutting the edges.
- forthe compilation notes, I have often used PeterMR's excellent comments which he sent us some time...
- Marcus [to DanielP]:
- you have only 3 programs, as i just see.
- you see a shape apearing by the left wall... a nose, a face, a body! Felipe is here!
- Marcus inserts a dime into the coke machine, and out drops a Classic Coke.
- PeterMR inserts a dime into the coke machine, and out drops a Iron Brew.
- DanielP [to mar]:
- Your ftp address is ftp.desy.ifh ?
- Marcus [to PeterMR]:
- i am finished, lets go to your question before, when there are no futher inquiries.
- Marcus [to DanielP]:
- the FTP where you can download, yes.
- the course stuff is at ftp.desy.de, though.
- DanielP [to Marcus]:
- I think that it is the first time I see this address
- PeterMR [to Marcus]:
- - I got didtsracted anyway... My concern is to get the right speed. I think that we shall find that some students will fall behind in later chapters
- Marcus [to PeterMR]:
- the earlier you get it done, the better, since some students are getting impatient...
- PeterMR [to Marcus]:
- - get what done?
- Marcus [to DanielP]:
- ok, it is ftp.desy.ifh:/pub/incoming to bring stuff to me.
- Marcus [to PeterMR]:
- chapter 4...?
- DanielP nods
- PeterMR [to Marcus]:
- I think some of them want to get into projects. Should we put up a signing list to see the interest?
- Marcus [to PeterMR]:
- i agree with you, and I am not unhappy as it is now (one week 'behind'), for that reason.
- I think first all ppl who have talked about proposeing should first propose to the list. e.g. daniel and felipe.
- Marcus would also like to know Dan's thoughts about the 'nintendo'... :)
- DanielP [to PeterMR]:
- I think that we can wait a bit befoer making a call for project proposal
- PeterMR says:
- don't quite follow - proposals from students or from consulatnts?
- Marcus [to PeterMR]:
- signing list: sure, how do we do it - another board in this room?
- DanielP [to PeterMR]:
- I haven't finished digesting all my mail yet!
- Marcus agrees with Daniel - 2 more weeks maybe, after the basics.
- PeterMR says:
- yes - or we could use HTML forms :-) (not me)
- PeterMR [to well I thought that we might say:'Projects start in 2 weeks - what (if any) would you like to work on - and give them a list]:
-
- Marcus [to PeterMR]:
- no time - unless Diego or someone else who has a server wants to experiment....also, we're running the wrong server here, I think (not ncsa httpd).
- DanielP [to PeterMR]:
- I would prefer that there is no distinciton between consultants and students proposals
- Marcus agrees. but we need one person for contact at least. of either group.
- Marcus doesnt understand the 'subject ordering' of the Web-list archives.
- Marcus [to PeterMR]:
- what is your suggestion as for the speed - slow down like 2 weeks per chapter (like it has been until now)?
- DanielP [to Marcus]:
- About Nintendo, I haven't thought much about the nuts an bolts yet, since there is not enough students showing off in one session, at least mine
- PeterMR agees with daniel in principle. But someone has to coordinate the project work so a consulatnt has to *understand whether the project is feasible
- PeterMR says:
- I'm quite happy to look at student proposals and say - that's OK, that's too difficult (or too long). But I also think that we3 must have some prepared projects that we can see the structure in.
- Marcus [to PeterMR]:
- correct insofar the projects shall be accessible after the tutorial. student projects would rather likely exclude c++ beginners.
- PeterMR says:
- I'm not sure yet whether we are going too fast or slow! The thing is that IRL you get more feedback!
- Marcus [to DanielP]:
- how many did you see, on the average?
- DanielP has disconnected.
- PeterMR says:
- the thing about simple projects is that we get some feedback - (a) how many students actually do them (b) how many manage
- Marcus [to PeterMR]:
- i thought the survey shows that we're not so badly off - that e.g. antoher week for chapter 1 will be appreciated by, say 30 %, while another 30% would rather like it faster...
- DanielP has connected.
- Marcus eyes Felipe - youre here often, arent you - what is the opinion of students?
- PeterMR says:
- I agree - marcus. I think it is about right at present. And there is a *lot* of extra material that they can tackle if they wish.
- PeterMR has only seen relatively few students
- Marcus nods - the extra 80 programs e.g.
- DanielP says:
- Am I the only one who just got disconnedt?
- PeterMR [to danilep]:
- - there was a serious lag (ca 1-2 mins) but it iddin't disconnect me
- Marcus says:
- so have I - that's why i emphasized this for the call today. it seems though that almost all have found their way here, at least.
- Felipe [to Marcus]:
- no, the students, didnt talk about projects here
- DanielP [to Marcus]:
- Is there a way to find how many students haven't connected yet?
- Felipe [to Marcus]:
- i just remember 1 that ask me about it
- PeterMR asks the same Q as daneil and notices that many students have set descriptions in the MOO
- Marcus [to Felipe]:
- i remember ca. 10 asking for chapter 2.
- Marcus [to PeterMR]:
- ..which reminds me that we have to get to a decisin on the cons/student group assignments. whetner or not.
- Felipe says:
- i think we need to 'sell the idea'
- PeterMR is prepared to take on a larger group of students so that he can try to get some more feedback.
- Marcus [to DanielP]:
- hm..not that I know. but I may not know. you and I can check with the @listgroup command. also, there is a command called 'census'...maybe i can modify it.
- Marcus [to Felipe]:
- yeah, but how ?
- DanielP [to mar]:
- I prefer much more that we head in the project direction and then make a grouping at that time
- (Marcus thinks: for 'census', you have to @addfeature #698 )
- PeterMR thinks that many students won't use the MOO at all, but would interact via listserver and mailing lists for projects
- Marcus [to DanielP]:
- that's what I think, too.
- Marcus [to Felipe]:
- You?
- Felipe [to Marcus]:
- Im agree with PeterMR,
- PeterMR says:
- perhaps we should offer (say) three starting projects (easy, mdeium, hard) and see who signs up for what.
- Marcus [to DanielP]:
- also the office hours are so inhomogeneous ...
- Marcus thinks this is a good idea.
- DanielP says:
- I think that an arbitrary grouping of students to cons is artificial at this time and not all cons are willing to devote the same amount ot time to this
- Marcus [to DanielP]:
- surely not. I am completely out, so is Frank Chen, as he said, for now.
- Marcus [to PeterMR]:
- but what would the assignements be (for these projects).
- DanielP says:
- The other think, is that if we propose then the students are expecting things will fall from above, which I don't like
- PeterMR says:
- I agree. I think we should 'guess' some general projects - with student input, and try to set up some groups that ppl feel they belong to
- PeterMR drops PeterMR's EigenFunction.
- DanielP [to Marcus]:
- What do you mean by surely not?
- PeterMR suddenly disappears.
- Marcus [to DanielP]:
- surely not all cons are willing... etc
- DanielP [to Marcus]:
- so you agree with me
- Marcus sees the emissaries are a total success :)
- Marcus [to DanielP]:
- Yes.
- as is said in articles to the consultants after peter wrote to 'his' students.
- DanielP says:
- When I first made a project proposal, I use a certain format, I would like to discuss what kind of format we should use for project proposal
- Marcus says:
- I think a 'n-tuple class' project (Vectors -> matrices ->..etc) can easily evolve from 'easy' to 'hard' throughout the course.
- Marcus nods - good that you mention this.
- (DanielP thinks: I prefer a little more structure, I haven't recover yet from an email indigestion! )
- Marcus says:
- the only request I have is that the URL to the projects index page appears somewhere in the proposal.
- Marcus laffs
- Marcus [to DanielP]:
- Would you want to draft a proposal 'form'? - need not be long.
- PeterMR's PeterMR's EigenFunction says:
- I think the listserv traffic will die down. We can create subgroups for projects
- DanielP [to marc]:
- That's fine with me, but we should discuss the nuts and bolts of this a little further
- Marcus says:
- I think it should have a) contact person, b) title c) difficulty (as peter said).
- Marcus [to DanielP]:
- sure.
- Marcus thinks Dan has his mind on 'nuts and bolts' :)
- PeterMR's PeterMR's EigenFunction says:
- since this is the first time round I don't think we should be too ambitious. Projects can always grow outwards, but if we getb overstretched we get nowhere
- Marcus says:
- since there are some projects on the table, why dont we draft the form, then try whether the original projects fit into the scheme - on the Web page I have listed 8 proposals up to now.
- --------------------------------Marcus (#1459)---------------------------------
- 1. Proposal for a String class (PeterMR)
- 2. First student projects (PeterMR)
- 3. A GUI with computer animation for the Virtual Campus (DanielP)
- [ 4. Nintendo Game Hour (DanielP) ]
- 5. A graphics library (Felipe)
- 6. OOP content of the MOO programming language (Marcus)
- 7. Small resource-handling classes (Traven)
- 8. Matrix classes (BillH and Marcus)
- 9. Own GNA Classlib (Wolfgang Leideck)
- --------------------------------Marcus (#1459)---------------------------------
- DanielP [to PeterMR's EigenFunction]:
- I was thinking that we should introduce some kind of protocols to use in the mailing, in the newsgroup an CFP is a call for paper etc. so after we decide on some projects we can number them and the ppl on project 1 would use PROJECT1 as the first word of their subject line
- PeterMR's PeterMR's EigenFunction says:
- good idea
- Marcus [to PeterMR's EigenFunction]:
- the traffic will fluctuate at the beginning of every tutorial - and behigh for more OOP...I think.
- Marcus nods Daniel
- PeterMR's PeterMR's EigenFunction says:
- I think that as soon as the groups are set up, ppl will form their own mailing lists - e.g. 5-15 ppl and work out the project that way
- Marcus acks the lag.
- Marcus back!
- Marcus would like to speed the MOO machine up a bit..
- Marcus inserts a dime into the coke machine, and out drops a Perrier.
- (DanielP thinks: That beyond our abilities! )
- (Marcus thinks: Am I the only one lagging? )
- Marcus okdok
- DanielP says:
- noop
- PeterMR's PeterMR's EigenFunction says:
- no marcus we are all lagging.
- Marcus thinks PeterMR is being served a cool drink by Linda in the meantime... :)
- Marcus sends his regards to the study hall.
- Marcus [to PeterMR's EigenFunction]:
- the last thing I got was that you said there would be mailing lists spinning off.
- DanielP says:
- We also should agree on a time frame for the introduction and beginning of project, Marcus mentionned a couple of weeks, do we agree on this?
- PeterMR's PeterMR's EigenFunction says:
- marcus I am tesing my automatic notedit widget
- Marcus [to DanielP]:
- I thought 4 weeks for 4 chapters - now I do think we will be lucky if we get through 1-4 until mid-June.
- PeterMR's PeterMR's EigenFunction says:
- yes I think 2 weeks is fine. gives a chance for diuscussion
- PeterMR arrives from nowhere.
- Marcus [to DanielP]:
- ..meaning without boring the advanced (via projects), nor loosing the slow
- DanielP [to marc]:
- I dont want this course to drag beyond september though
- Marcus [to DanielP]:
- In any case, the consultants should be given a chance to bail out end of June. Ok?
- PeterMR says:
- let's amke a guess. about 50% of students will choos e the easiest projects... 25% medium and a few explorers will try the toughest
- DanielP [to Marcus]:
- Are planning a big defection?
- PeterMR says:
- I'm optimistic that when the projects are going well, the students will keep the momentum
- Marcus says:
- NO - i mean that ...exactly, Peter
- Marcus [to DanielP]:
- i do want to have the full tutorial on the Web, but
- PeterMR says:
- so I'd suggest we aim for ca. 6 groups to start with 10-20 in each group. manageable by a consultant each
- Marcus says:
- ..i could imagine that anything after chapter 7 say will not be under our supervision (as close as now).
- Marcus [to DanielP]:
- that's why i would want to have the chapter stuff done *fast*, so we're free to plan otherwise.
- DanielP [to pet]:
- I have to disagree here, a project beyond 7 or 8 ppl is a mess to run
- PeterMR says:
- the three easiest could be on the same project or could be different. I'd suggest the sort of things that I listed. Not too ambitious
- Marcus thinks > 10 would be too hard.
- PeterMR says:
- daniel - OK, you are probably right. I was assuming a sleeping membership - i.e. 50% of project ppl did very little mailing
- Marcus [to PeterMR]:
- i think we wont pass the 10 students threshold easily - there ARE manydiverse interests and some ppl wont participate in a project.
- Marcus nods Peter that is better
- Marcus lights a virtual cigarette...
- ..Thick clouds of smoke are slowly drifting through the room.
- PeterMR says:
- ok - that's another way of saying the same thing. 6 projects with 5-10 students on each and some of the students on no projects
- DanielP says:
- we don't force anybody to participate in projects?
- PeterMR says:
-
- daniel we can't force anyone to do anything!
- Marcus nods
- PeterMR says:
- let's anticipate student types... OK
- DanielP says:
- because the backbenchers create real overhead, so I rather avoid sleepin membership
- DanielP [to pet]:
- I know
- (Marcus thinks: backbenchers.. :) )
- (DanielP thinks: In rl, those in the back disturbing the rest )
- PeterMR says:
- 1. inexperienced, and conscientious.. Would do anything we say. Would submit work on a regular basis. Worried if too hard. No real problem
- 2. not up to the course and drops behind without contributing. No problem
- 3. up to the course but lazy (or has many other pressures). Difficult, since can come in later weeks and is difficult to cater for
- Marcus thinks this transcript will be worth publishing - NOW :)
- Marcus [to PeterMR]:
- I am in group (3.)
- Marcus laffs.
- DanielP smiles
- PeterMR says:
- 4. keen and good. Bored at present. Teams up with other likeminded students and roars off into the unknown. probably crashes. Concultants can then analyse the damage. Fun. No problem. Hopefully learns
- Marcus says:
- would the two of you be willing to take the first steps of project-organization in your able hands - after the mailing list issue has come to a good end?
- PeterMR says:
- 5. Wizard. hasn't done any C++ but bloody good . Learns faster than consultants. Overtakes them. becomes one. great!
- 6. Thinks he (usually is he) is good but isn't. talks all the time. Don't think we have any, luckily!!!
- Marcus laffs wholeheartedly.
- DanielP says:
- marcus is in group 3, maybe we should have to students to choose their group!
- I am in group 6!
- PeterMR says:
- so - we can deal with most of the likely student types. We obviously have students who are very good (e.g. those who have set up all the things. My gues is that by week 6 we can monitor the projects quite lightly as their *group* will teach themselves
- DanielP says:
- More seriously, I think that there is a pretty realistic description
- PeterMR says:
- *I* am in group 3. IRL as well. but we all have jobs to do...
- Marcus laffs - maybe I am rather 6, though. with respect to how i take YOUR time...
- PeterMR says:
- the main point is that a type 1 in a type 3 project will feel let down if it is chaotic. There will be many who feel that if they have written String by the end they can feel proud of it
- DanielP [to peter]:
- I would like to encourage reuse a little bit more, and the more experience students might be more interested, some project should start with a framework to work with
- PeterMR says:
- have to go soon - I suggest we post something along these lines and see what sort of reaction we get. But really I would like a FORMS for the returns! Let's post for that!
- daniel is right *in principle* but we can only reuse if we have a class library to reuse. that is (a) either from G++ classes on the net or (b) what we have written personally
- Marcus [to PeterMR]:
- ok, who will do what - you post on procedure and a volunteer for FORMS?
- PeterMR says:
- also I have found *very* few people who *actually* reuse classes.
- Marcus [to peter]:
- no, not g++....lacking any comment whatsoever
- Marcus [to PeterMR]:
- in the spirit of what traven said: you reWRITE, not reUSE. when you CAN reuse, you have no USE anymore for it :)
- PeterMR says:
- yes I'll advertise and see if anyone wants to set up a forms server somewhere. It will be useful for many other thins for the class
- Marcus says:
- ok. and dan thinks about a few lines for a proposal form?
- DanielP [to peter]:
- If I go ahead with the GUI project and I use the MFC, I don't see what is the prolbem
- Marcus says:
- MFC?
- PeterMR says:
- I see REUSE as building on other peoples work. rewriting isn't reuse - although it's important
- (DanielP thinks: The Microsoft Foundation Classes )
- Marcus nods. in this sense, everyone around me at least reinvents the wheel, twice per month.
- DanielP [to pet]:
- the ppl on the projects would have to have their own copy
- PeterMR says:
- MFC - that IS reuse - but presumably only for those who have bought them (unlike me). THAT is one of the real problems with REUSE
- it is so boring to write reusable classes that the only ones are commercial
- Marcus [to Felipe]:
- you had a project too, i remember
- DanielP says:
- Obviously I cannot post the code of the MFC on the Web, but if every students on the projects have their copy, we can work at the much more interesting level
- PeterMR says:
- for example - I should be able to reuse a class for protein sequence analysis but there isn't one anywhere. the only reusable classes are (a) containers (b) maths (c) very simple objects like string (d) g++ (simpl stats).
- Marcus says:
- what is the opinion: do we have use for another consultant? I have someone who is interested.
- PeterMR [to DanielP]:
- - I agree entirely with the concept. I think it will make avery good illustration of C++. maybe you should gather a few students who have the classes
- DanielP [to marc]:
- We always have room for other consultants
- DanielP [to pet]:
- That's what I hope to realize
- PeterMR says:
- but *most* of us will have to use the limited set of publicly available ones or write their own. (Of course I'd be delighted if anyone reused mine! - but they are slightly discipline-sepecifc)
- Marcus [to dan]:
- i missed your proposal.. can you rephrase?
- Marcus [to PeterMR]:
- so are mine.
- PeterMR says:
- if ppl *started* with the microsfot ones I think it would be difficult to compare notes bewteen projects.
- but it might be a good thing for a second project, after a simpler first one. Also, not all the students with microsoft will be at the same level.
- I think it would be a really good idea if someone got some classes down from the public list and saw whwther they were any good,
- Zircon_Guest arrives from nowhere.
- Marcus [to DanielP]:
- no legal problems distributing copies?
- PeterMR says:
- I will have to go soon. What have we decide?
- DanielP says:
- We should look at the issue of copyright of some of the framework library available, Microsolft or Borland might be interested in a contribution to this course (that's good cheap publicity). The code of theirs library is available to every body who buy a copy of their compiler
- Marcus hms. Has no PC.
- PeterMR [to DanielP]:
- I think that is a VERY VERY good idea. I really like the idea of students starting with good tested classes.
- PeterMR [to I]:
- would hope that Borland and Microsoft would be sympathetic. But we need to start right away
- Marcus [to PeterMR]:
- decided: you write to the list, Daniel thinks about a proposal format, all of us try to finish the next chapters soon and I put this transcript on the Web.
- Marcus says:
- ok?
- DanielP says:
- What have we decided?
- Marcus just tried to phrase it.
- Zircon_Guest reads the GNA Catalog.
- Marcus [to DanielP]:
- just a few lines what should be in the proposal, post it to the consultants for coment. also PeterMR - maybe you can post to Consultants first, so we see what you cook up :)
- PeterMR says:
- of course I think that Microsoft have a policy that anyone with a product at work can use it at home. So maybe we could get quite a lot of students with free copies of the classes.
- Marcus [to DanielP]:
- any way how I can get those classes soon, to look?
- PeterMR says:
- also for Borland V2 they distributed SOURCE. So that that could be a VERY good starting point. I have the source for that
- Marcus has a 386 at home actually...but will fade out, no desire to buy additional software.
- Zircon_Guest goes out.
- BillH arrives from nowhere.
- DanielP says:
- agree to write a proposal format and post it to the cons-list
- PeterMR says:
- I think theye were almost all container classes that is the problem
- Marcus loves container classes.
- PeterMR says:
- I will post something to the list tomorrow to get discussion going among students and get an idea of response. Also they could post notes in the classroom?
- Marcus [to Felipe]:
- you just sent a blurb for a project?
- Marcus [to PeterMR]:
- sure - maybe i should make another board?
- PeterMR loves container classes also, but finds them difficult to navigate
- PeterMR thinks another board is a GREAT idea.
- PeterMR thinks another board is a GREAT idea.
- Marcus [to PeterMR]:
- ok - you suggest a name?
- Projects board?
- Marcus drops Projects board.
- PeterMR thinks it's a good name. Will advertise tomorrow on listserv.
- Marcus says:
- ok, it's projects board (aka 'pb')
- Felipe says:
- Ive leave, i was 'hearing' all, ive posted to con. list my project proposal, im agree in release the projects since now...
- PeterMR likes the pb
- Marcus [to PeterMR]:
- anytime: put a 'welcome msg'
- PeterMR waves goodnight - at least for a while
- Projects board is now open for public posting.
- Marcus says:
- ok - thanks for coming!
- PeterMR has disconnected.
- Marcus takes PeterMR's EigenFunction.
- DanielP says:
- The problem with framework library is that they have theirs own learning curve to go over, not interesting for beginners
- Felipe says:
- Cu boys!
- Marcus has little experience here. From what you say, someone who knows can select a useful, instructive subset?
- Marcus [to Felipe]:
- bye~
- Marcus says:
- Ok - shall we adjourn?
- Felipe suddenly disappears.(but before he says CU IN FEW MINUTES)
- DanielP nods
- Marcus says:
- ok, thanks again! c u
- Felipe's Image disappears in a puff of smoke