- [Part of the transcript was garbled due to 'interference' with Ken's
- slideprojector, I presume. I had to insert from the automatically saved
- transcript - rather than the recording. - Marcus ]
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
- GNA C++ Class
- You see a rather sparse Generic Classroom. There's a blackboard on
- the front wall and a clock above it. Type 'help here' for assistance.
- This is a testroom for the GNA class 'Introduction to Object-Oriented
- Programming Using C++', starting May 1. Type SCHEDULE to see the schedule.
- You see Teacher's Desk and Big Table.
- You see Traven, MikeP, and PJ standing about.
- Traven says:
- Hi Marcus.
- MikeP says:
- marcus watch this
- Marcus says:
- hey Peter
- MikeP sits down at Big Table. . .
- MikeP stands up from Big Table. . .
- Marcus watches
- MikeP sits down at Teacher's Desk. . .
- Marcus claps.
- _____________________________________________
- | |
- Marcus holds up a BIG sign: | WHAT ARE YOU DOING AT THE TEACHER'S DESK :) |
- |_____________________________________________|
- MikeP whapses Traven across the knuckles with a ruler.
- >:considers cancelling Mike's registration for undue behaviour.. :)
- Marcus considers cancelling Mike's registration for undue behaviour.. :)
- MikeP stands up from Teacher's Desk. . .
- Traven watches and gets more and more confused
- MikeP says:
- what's wrong
- Please try again. I see no tech to sit at. . .
- Marcus sits down at Teacher's Desk. . .
- MikeP says:
- uh oh
- Marcus [to Traven]:
- -> HELP FINGER
- Traven says:
- "Here we are, and everyone sits down, stands up, demonstrate his
- power, etc."
- Marcus [to Traven]:
- @describe me as "....
- Traven [to Marcus]:
- Will do help finger now ...
- Marcus says:
- well, did you look at the help...we can stifle, ppl can speak up etc
- MikeP says:
- yes? whats wrong with that
- Traven says:
- Nothing. It's only confusing :)
- MikeP says:
- that's why marcus built the place
- Marcus closes the door to GNA C++ Class...
- Marcus laffs Mike
- Marcus closes the door to GNA C++ Class...
- Traven says:
- oh, I see. That explains everything.
- Traven laughs.
- MikeP says:
- I don't understand why we all have to stand tho
- Marcus doesnt get replies to the clients survey...aargh
- Marcus is seated
- Marcus says:
- or try making a desk.
- MikeP says:
- I don't know how to copy your survey inot my letter
- inot
- Marcus says:
- addtable
- MikeP says:
- into
- to answer it
- Marcus [to MikeP]:
- ah...send it to me via Email and I'll post them all
- Traven says:
- I still use big ole telnet ... :)
- Marcus [to Traven]:
- are you Emacs knowledgeble?
- Traven says:
- Isn't there a client for the vi ...?
- Traven grins
- (Marcus thinks: VI ... AAAAaaargh! )
- MikeP says:
- anyway I use tinyfugue 'cause I don't know emacs
- Marcus grins
- MikeP says:
- whew! but its missing an i
- Marcus [to MikeP]:
- great, just tried to use it yesterday and failed - send it
- to me asap...I can easily include BIG chunks with MY client :)
- Marcus says:
- it's just too long for @audit
- MikeP says:
- tinyfugue is okay, it works
- Traven says:
- What's about tinyfugue?
- What are the features?
- MikeP says:
- "PJ says I can connect many times with different characters, if I
- ever wanted to"
- MikeP says:
- or on different moos
- Traven says:
- So you have a splitted personality.
- MikeP says:
- right your are Dr. Jeckyl
- you
- Traven [to Marcus]:
- Have you the ftp site for thos clients at hand?
- Marcus [to Traven]:
- are you on the GNA channel?
- MikeP says:
- desy
- Marcus [to Traven]:
- alwas the same
- Marcus says:
- pub/uu-gna/moo/*
- Traven [to Marcus]:
- What do you mean with GNA channel?
- MikeP says:
- @joinc GNA
- Marcus says:
- Type 'gnainfo' and look for the help
- Marcus gets info on GNA.
- Info notes on GNA: to read, type READ <number> ON #4415 [aka INFO]
- 1 - Marcus: Welcome to GNA!
- 2 - Marcus: Join the GNA channel at DivU MOO
- 3 - Marcus: Getting Info via Email or FTP
- 4 - Marcus: GNA Feature Object
- Marcus says:
- no. 2
- Traven says:
- Sorry, still have no idea what you mean
- Marcus says:
- a chatting channel on MOO.
- MikeP says:
- type this now @joinc GNA
- Marcus nods
- Marcus will add moo char names to the schedule
- Traven says:
- Response: I don't understand that.
- Marcus says:
- he should follow the instructions...
- Marcus [to Traven]:
- -> read 2 on #4415
- >read 2 on #4415
- There is a MOO-wide GNA chatting channel, no matter where you are on DivU.
- Action:
- @addfeature #655
- register
- @joinc GNA
- [@topic] to set a new topic for the chat
- [> Hi there!] to speak
- [>> nods.] to emote
- [@leave] to leave [dont ever do it]
- hope i didnt forget anything. In any case,
- see 'help #655' for details (and dont page Ulf on this, he said :)
- (You finish reading.)
- Traven reads a note on the GNA Info.
- Traven says:
- Well, I will try it ...
- Ok. Now @joinc GNA work
- What next?
- Marcus says:
- just follow the instructions... > TEXT >> TEXT
- Ken joins you.
- Ken bops in to check things out...
- Ken says:
- hi there!
- Marcus says:
- hey Ken
- Ken opens the door to GNA C++ Class. . .
- MikeP says:
- ah the movie director
- Marcus [to Ken]:
- doors working? open/closed?
- Marcus grins
- Ken closes the door to GNA C++ Class...
- Ken says:
- works now!
- Marcus [to Ken]:
- well THAT yes.
- MikeP says:
- but you can close them twice in a row
- Marcus [to MikeP]:
- can you go out and try to return? -
- Ken says:
- try it!
- Marcus b/c mike i snot registered here
- Marcus adds a name to the class list...
- Class roster includes: PeterMR, Marcus, DanielP, Ricardo, and Traven
- MikeP mikeps blows his nose.
- Marcus says:
- also one shouldnt be able to walk through a closed door...
- Ken grins
- Marcus kicks Mike direction door
- Ken greets mikep and marcus
- MikeP says:
- I still can't do it
- Marcus [to MikeP]:
- cant do what?
- MikeP says:
- close the door
- Marcus wonders when Mike is finished with his nose...
- Ken says:
- did you type: door close
- MikeP says:
- ohhhhhh
- Marcus says:
- no
- MikeP says:
- I stand corrected
- Opal_Guest arrives from nowhere.
- Marcus says:
- I suggest Mike goes OUT
- and then OOP again
- Marcus [to MikeP]:
- pleeease
- Traven adds a name to the class list...
- >roster
- Class roster includes: PeterMR, Marcus, DanielP, Ricardo, and Traven
- Linda pages, "You deserve the pat on the back, btw, & the flowers."
- MikeP opens the door to GNA C++ Class. . .
- MikeP closes the door to GNA C++ Class...
- MikeP opens the door to GNA C++ Class. . .
- Uh, the door is already open...
- MikeP says:
- ooooooh
- Marcus nods
- Marcus [to Ken]:
- well done
- MikeP says:
- ken did the door
- Ken bows marcus..
- Marcus [to MikeP]:
- please walk OUT...count until 10, then IN again
- Ken says:
- but does it keep folks out ?
- toc toc toc
- MikeP says:
- how do I do that
- Marcus [to MikeP]:
- type OUT
- MikeP goes out.
- Marcus closes the door to GNA C++ Class...
- Marcus sighs
- Ken grins
- Traven laughs
- Marcus [to Ken]:
- line mode is HARD
- Ken hopes it works... crosses fingers..
- MikeP joins you.
- MikeP arrives from nowhere.
- MikeP says:
- hi!
- Marcus sighs -
- Ken says:
- rats #$%@
- Marcus [to MikeP]:
- You walked through a CLOSED DOOR :)
- Ken wonders what the problem is.. hmmm
- Marcus laffs his a** off
- MikeP says:
- ohhh my head
- a guy could get hurt
- Ken says:
- well, back to the drawing board...
- Marcus nods
- Ken reconnects marcus' a**
- Marcus [to Traven]:
- wonders of VR world...
- Marcus [to Ken]:
- oh...thanks. I would have missed it for thinking
- MikeP says:
- these things are important
- Traven says:
- No. Virtual doors ...
- Marcus grins
- Traven says:
- Maybe the lock mechanism don't know that it exists ...
- Ken says:
- "yes, we *must* get these doors working right, its a hi priority..
- ill get on it this afternoon.."
- Marcus laffs - very high. Well, you could rename them....'transparent doors' :)
- MikeP says:
- TaraP and Jeanne would kill for locks
- Marcus sets door.opaque=1
- Marcus [to MikeP]:
- why, do they have secrets ? :)
- >door close
- Uh, the door is already closed...
- Ken says:
- "i will woork on it... funny thing is they work *some* of the time
- and not other times.. very mysterious.."
- Traven says:
- I prefer Freedom of Information.
- MikeP says:
- well maybe, but they like uniterrupted meetings
- Marcus opens the door to GNA C++ Class. . .
- Traven says:
- Why open a door, which is transparent?
- Ken says:
- is 'session' working ok?
- MikeP closes the door to GNA C++ Class...
- Marcus [to Traven]:
- wait until you have been around longer..
- exactly...
- try SESSION OFF
- Traven turns off the 'Class in Session' sign...
- Marcus [to Ken]:
- yes
- MikeP says:
- do you see the sign when you walk in?
- Ken says:
- "good..... when everthing is working we'll build in a permsisions
- heirarchy as to who can control what.."
- Marcus wonders why Etah's silent_abode isnt @kid of #5006
- Marcus nods.
- Ken [to MikeP]:
- no, only when you do @who
- Marcus [to MikeP]:
- no, with @who
- Marcus turns on the 'Class in Session' sign...
- MikeP says:
- you know I can @join you without walking in
- the door
- Marcus [to Ken]:
- mike is right - one should when walking in -
- Marcus [to MikeP]:
- then, upon materializing
- Ken says:
- "uh, so, when someone enters they should get 'class in session'
- message?"
- DanielP has arrived.
- Marcus nods. Not all sessions will be working at closed doors...
- DanielP says:
- Hi
- Traven says:
- Hi.
- Marcus thinks Ken gets overloaded by this crowd...
- MikeP wavesses.
- Marcus [to DanielP]:
- Traven is Peter Mueller
- Marcus turns off the 'Class in Session' sign...
- Ken grins, appreciates all the input really..
- Marcus sets some room messages
- MikeP says:
- he's one of the consultants
- Ken bows to everyone
- Ken sits down at Big Table. . .
- MikeP sits down at Teacher's Desk. . .
- Marcus sits crossed-legs on the floor
- Ken [to MikeP]:
- can you hear me?
- Marcus disables emoting from seats to whole room...
- Ken speaks up, "thats great!"
- LesB joins you.
- LesB materializes before your very eyes!
- Marcus enables emoting from seats to whole room...
- Ken grins
- Marcus says:
- ken, is "stifle" announced to the room?
- Marcus waves
- LesB waves.
- MikeP wavesses.
- Traven waves
- Marcus [to all]:
- How should this room SMELL :) ?
- (Marcus thinks: @smell here isn't set. )
- Traven says:
- Pink!
- (LesB thinks: like ions ;) )
- MikeP thinkses something is going on he knows nothing about.
- Marcus laffs
- Ken [to Marcus]:
- yes, stifle on /off is announced..
- Marcus [to MikeP]:
- @messages here
- Marcus nods Ken
- LesB [to Marcus]:
- the class has started or ?
- Ken sets up a Bed of Nails in the room. . .
- Marcus sets the messages
- Marcus [to LesB]:
- SCHEDULE
- Chrysoberyl_Guest arrives from nowhere.
- MikeP whapses LesB across the knuckles with a ruler.
- Marcus says:
- and not all consultants have been filled in
- Marcus [to LesB]:
- we'll discipline MikeP later, dont worry... :)
- Ken stands up from Big Table. . .
- Ken sits down at Bed of Nails. . .
- Ken chuckles
- LesB says:
- ah, sorry I just saw class in session
- Marcus [to Ken]:
- is @oteleport_repel active when doors are closed?
- Marcus [to LesB]:
- Testing
- Ken [to LesB]:
- oh, were just debugging
- LesB says:
- ok, cool
- Marcus [to Ken]:
- the bed of nails is for the Instructor of the Week :)
- Ken [to Marcus]:
- uh, not yet.. lots of little bugs in this area to check out..
- MikeP laffses.
- Traven says:
- To keep him awake.
- Ken laffs
- MikeP stands up from Teacher's Desk. . .
- Ken asks everyone to 'sit' to see how quiet it gets..
- Marcus turns on the 'Class in Session' sign...
- MikeP sits down at Big Table. . .
- Chrysoberyl_Guest stands up from Big Table. . .
- Chrysoberyl_Guest sits down at Teacher's Desk. . .
- LesB says:
- ok, well thanks guys, can't wait!
- LesB goes home.
- Traven sits down at Big Table. . .
- Marcus [to Ken]:
- could you change for this room (Class in session) to (IN
- SESSION) ...?
- Marcus [to Ken]:
- if the name is too long, the sign wont appear otherwise...
- Ken [to Marcus]:
- hmm, good idea, maybe i should make the message user
- writable..
- Marcus nods
- Marcus says:
- since this room is clearly a CLASS
- Marcus eyes Ken's swelling notebook
- Traven stands up from Big Table. . .
- Ken laffs marcus
- Ken looks at clock
- Marcus changed @walk_repel and @teleport_repel
- Ken waves
- Ken stands up from Bed of Nails. . .
- Marcus waves
- Ken removes table named Bed of Nails. . .
- Traven [to Marcus]:
- What does this ...repel stuff mean?
- Ken goes home.
- Marcus [to Traven]:
- if you try to JOIN someone or @GO here when it is locked -
- you are repelled with this msg.
- Traven [to Marcus]:
- I see. How did you change it?
- DanielP I see no help for @walk_repel
- Chrysoberyl_Guest stands up from Teacher's Desk. . .
- Marcus says:
- <message_name> is "<description
- Marcus [to DanielP]:
- generic help for @messages
- Marcus says:
- "some are subject to action in the room - then changing doesnt make
- much sense. "
- Marcus says:
- "if any consultant/student has an idea for a nice verb for this
- room...tell me"
- MOOdy arrives from nowhere.
- Rabbit scampers out from behind a shadow and plops down beside MOOdy's feet.
- Marcus [to DanielP]:
- fairly few students have tried this place until now...
- Traven says:
- How are discussions organized?
- Eg. If several students were talking at the same time.
- Marcus [to Traven]:
- several possibilities: there are 'moderated rooms' for
- conferencing. here we have to organize ourselves...that would be a good area
- ofr useful new verbs.
- Traven says:
- "I've been in one room, where speakers first have to raise their
- hands. Like old fashioned school ..."
- Marcus [to Traven]:
- this is the moderated room -> look #963
- DanielP [to Marcus]:
- Sorry, was ready help for messages
- Marcus [to Traven]:
- set your FINGER info?
- MOOdy goes home.
- Traven [to Marcus]:
- Oh no. Will do it right now.
- Marcus says:
- "also, dan and traven ...maybe you can check your abilities by
- creating a $note and sticking it to the 'list' -> look list "
- (Marcus thinks: on the teacher's desk )
- Marcus says:
- "if you dont want something to be removed, e.g. the list on the desk,
- say:"
- Marcus says:
- @lock <object> with <where to lock it>
- e.g. @lock list with teacher's desk
- Marcus does that and proposes someone tries to GET LIST
- Marcus says:
- wow....i gave wrong information
- Traven sits down at Teacher's Desk. . .
- Marcus says:
- the desks in THIS room arent objects....
- MikeP stands up from Big Table. . .
- MikeP sits down at Teacher's Desk. . .
- Marcus says:
- you can look at it without sitting at the desk
- MikeP drops Consultant's List.
- You pick up Consultant's List.
- Marcus sets Consultant's List on Teacher's Desk.
- Marcus says:
- now..it's on the desk. did you see that?
- need to ask Ken how to fix objects with details of this room
- Marcus waves the guests - C++Students?
- Chrysoberyl_Guest has disconnected.
- MikeP stands up from Teacher's Desk. . .
- MikeP reads a note on the Consultant's List.
- MikeP sits down at Big Table. . .
- Marcus [to consultants]:
- Any more questions.....?
- Marcus sits down at Teacher's Desk. . .
- MikeP opens the door to GNA C++ Class. . .
- DanielP Why the desk is not an object?
- Marcus [to Traven]:
- you dont have to type all of a name btw. if there is no
- other obj with that name it looks for an unambiguous completion....
- Traven [to Marcus]:
- I've setup my finger stuff.
- Marcus [to DanielP]:
- the 'objects' in this room are detail descriptions written
- with verbs, not @created
- Marcus [to Traven]:
- next exercise: create a $note and stick it to the
- consultant's list
- Traven [to Marcus]:
- Will try to create a note on the list.
- Marcus [to Traven]:
- examples for the abbrev mechanism:
- Marcus says:
- sit teach = sit teacher's desk
- Traven [to Marcus]:
- Ok.
- MikeP wavesses.
- Marcus thinks his fingers will fall of
- (Marcus thinks: off )
- Traven waves
- Marcus [to DanielP]:
- PeterMR wanted to come too. i am not sure the other 3 have
- accounts yet.
- Marcus [to Traven]:
- do also @chparent me to #500
- Chrysolite_Guest arrives from nowhere.
- Marcus [to Traven]:
- then type HELP #500 - useful e.g. for a list of @pals,
- interesting people who are logged
- Traven [to MikeP]:
- What will that do?
- Marcus waves guest
- Traven reads a note on the Consultant's List.
- Marcus is waiting for MORE consultants, MORE students to come and ask holes in
- the walls of this room
- Marcus laffs
- Marcus [to DanielP]:
- you are also #4, not #500 -> @d me
- Traven [to Marcus]:
- Damned. How do I create a note on the list?
- Marcus [to Traven]:
- 1) @create $note named Info on Traven,info
- Chrysolite_Guest says:
- hello"
- MikeP stands up from Big Table. . .
- MikeP suddenly disappears.
- Traven stands up from Teacher's Desk. . .
- Traven steps into the Note-Editing booth where you can no longer reach it
- except via a page.
- Chrysolite_Guest says:
- I am frank. I am not yet getting account here"
- Marcus [to Chrysolite_Guest]:
- Hi, will be done in 5 min if you give your ok.
- DanielP [to Marcus]:
- didn't understand "you are also #4
- Marcus [to Chrysolite_Guest]:
- you have to pick a userid and I will radio a
- wizard
- Marcus [to DanielP]:
- i am not:
- --------------------------------Marcus (#1459)---------------------------------
- >@d me
- Marcus (#1459) [ (player) programmer ]
- Child of Funkeee Player Class (#500).
- Location GNA C++ Class (#2000).
- --------------------------------Marcus (#1459)---------------------------------
- Marcus smiles
- Marcus welcomes Frank (=Frank Chen) btw.
- Chrysolite_Guest says:
- "o.k." to Marcus
- Marcus [to Frank]:
- the others here are consultants too: DanielP[erron], Traven
- [Peter Mueller]
- MikeP joins you.
- MikeP arrives from nowhere.
- MikeP says:
- marcus
- Marcus [to Chrysolite_Guest]:
- what username you want - FrankC ? Frank_Chen? you
- can always @rename after
- Marcus [to MikeP]:
- yes
- MikeP says:
- how do I view your survey again?
- Marcus [to Chrysolite_Guest]:
- have you been on here before?
- Chrysolite_Guest says:
- How about frank?"
- MikeP says:
- I say @nn to read it
- Marcus [to MikeP]:
- it's @mail...@read <no.> on *General
- 208-209
- MikeP says:
- that's right, thanks
- Chrysolite_Guest says:
- yes. But still struggle with moo" to Marcus
- Marcus [to frank]:
- Frank is given
- Marcus [to Chrysolite_Guest]:
- next step is to a) read the little guide b) get a
- smarter client (unless you have)
- PeterMR joins you.
- PeterMR arrives from nowhere.
- Marcus [to Chrysolite_Guest]:
- do you have an account already?
- Marcus [to PeterMR]:
- welcome in the classroom!
- PeterMR says:
- hi everyone
- DanielP waves Peter
- Pearl_Guest arrives from nowhere.
- Marcus [to Chrysolite_Guest]:
- otherwise you must wait for mail with password
- Traven finishes with its note Editing and rejoins you in the room.
- Chrysolite_Guest says:
- No"
- Marcus [to Chrysolite_Guest]:
- then wait for Email with a password
- Quick Page successfully sent to Jeanne.
- MikeP says:
- oops I thought Traven WAS PeterMR
- Marcus [to Chrysolite_Guest]:
- so: Frank_Chen or FrankC ?
- or a fantasy name?
- PeterMR says:
- back in a few mins ...
- MikeP says:
- FrankC easier to type
- Marcus [to Chrysolite_Guest]:
- like Traven...
- Marcus [to MikeP]:
- that is a personal thing.... :)
- Chrysolite_Guest says:
- FrankC is o.k."
- Marcus prefers Real names though...
- Marcus nods
- MikeP says:
- keystrokes are not personal
- Traven [to Marcus]:
- Back from editing the note.
- MikeP says:
- "I just had to order more parentheses, they told me I'm using too
- many"
- Pearl_Guest has disconnected.
- Assistants of the local psychology institute arrive to cart Pearl_Guest off to
- their dream-research labs.
- Marcus [to Chrysolite_Guest]:
- b/c you dont have a client. are you using Emacs?
- Traven says:
- Yeah. Discussions are fast when they are virtual.
- Traven [to Marcus]:
- I see ... I've found your mail about it ...
- Chrysolite_Guest says:
- "I am using emacs with mud.el now. and I have install
- tinytalk""
- Traven drops Info on Traven.
- MikeP wavesses.
- MikeP has disconnected.
- Chrysolite_Guest says:
- "But I am not quit familiar with emacs. I am basically a
- vi guy""
- Traven says:
- Like me, see?
- Traven grins
- Marcus [to Chrysolite_Guest]:
- then maybe you want to take another client.
- Tinyfugue is much used
- Marcus [to Chrysolite_Guest]:
- ftp.desy.de:/pub/uu-gna/moo/tf*.tar.gz
- Chrysolite_Guest says:
- Thanks!"
- Marcus [to Chrysolite_Guest]:
- the only prob is that i cannot help with this
- one...but others may. havejust started a client survey yesterday. MikeP knows
- about it ?
- Marcus [to MikeP]:
- huh?
- Traven [to Marcus]:
- I can't post the info.
- Marcus [to Traven]:
- ZIB...and vi(1) ...tststss
- Aquamarine_Guest joins you.
- Aquamarine_Guest arrives from nowhere.
- Marcus [to Traven]:
- permission denied..?
- Marcus waves the guests
- Marcus starts needing a coffeee
- Traven [to Marcus]:
- Response: I don't understand that.
- DanielP stands up from Teacher's Desk. . .
- DanielP steps into the Note-Editing booth where you can no longer reach it
- except via a page.
- Marcus says:
- oh...try @exam list
- (Marcus thinks: post/stick <anything> on list )
- Traven [to Marcus]:
- Maybe I've to stand up from the teacher's desk ...
- Marcus says:
- i gave you the wrong command I guess. yes, maybe.
- (Traven thinks: Already standing ... )
- Aquamarine_Guest says:
- Marcus it is I again: Benedetto (a nightmare, indeed)
- Traven sits down at Teacher's Desk. . .
- DanielP finishes with its note Editing and rejoins you in the room.
- Traven posts a note on Consultant's List.
- Marcus [to Aquamarine_Guest]:
- Hi - almost all consultants are here now..
- Traven [to Marcus]:
- Hurray! got it posted!
- Marcus claps Traven!
- Traven reads a note on the Consultant's List.
- Marcus [to Traven]:
- you only have " in front..
- you can always edit this while it's posted: @audit me - to
- get the obj number
- Traven [to Marcus]:
- Yup. Well back to the editor
- Marcus [to benedetto]:
- Questions?
- Aquamarine_Guest says:
- "You said to get gna-c++-consultants@tsun.desy.de. Is
- there a list?"
- Traven stands up from Teacher's Desk. . .
- Traven steps into the Note-Editing booth where you can no longer reach it
- except via a page.
- Marcus [to benedetto]:
- Right - a list of the consultants. get the mail
- automatically.
- Aquamarine_Guest says:
- is the address given before correct?
- [GNA] Marcus says:
- hey I think I'll need vacation after this course :) :)
- Marcus nods Aquamarine.
- Aquamarine_Guest says:
- what have to do to join it?
- Marcus says:
- "you cannot join it.It's only a list of addresses for the sendmail
- daemon..."
- Marcus [to Aquamarine_Guest]:
- i enter consultants manually.
- DanielP steps into the Note-Editing booth where you can no longer reach it
- except via a page.
- Marcus [to Aquamarine_Guest]:
- you can also look for students to help:
- gna-c++-students@tsun.desy.de
- DanielP finishes with its note Editing and rejoins you in the room.
- Aquamarine_Guest says:
- "i tried the URL http:/dxsting... too, but it reported
- to me rthe document "
- Aquamarine_Guest says:
- did not exist
- Marcus says:
- "finally, there is gna-c++-help@tsun.desy.de to ask help to the
- consultants."
- PeterMR says:
- back from the real world :-)
- Marcus [to Aquamarine_Guest]:
- lemme check
- (Marcus thinks: ( http://dxsting.cern.ch/sting/glossary-intro.html -> just)
- accessing it! )
- Marcus [to Aquamarine_Guest]:
- if you are heading at making it searchable, i
- shall fwd you some mail i have received and a script which will help.
- Aquamarine_Guest says:
- well I will try again. Bye.
- DanielP reads a note on the Consultant's List.
- Aquamarine_Guest says:
- ok, thank you. Bye.
- Marcus bye
- Chrysolite_Guest says:
- "How to look at the note on Consultant's List from
- within MOO?""
- PeterMR reads a note on the Consultant's List.
- Marcus [to Chrysolite_Guest]:
- the list (short: LIST) is a MOO object...
- Chrysolite_Guest says:
- I can @examine"
- PeterMR reads a note on the Consultant's List.
- Marcus [to Chrysolite_Guest]:
- LOOK LIST
- then READ <no> ON LIST
- Marcus will remove the announcment to the room..
- DanielP has taken note 3 from Consultant's List.
- Chrysolite_Guest reads a note on the Consultant's List.
- Marcus [to DanielP]:
- you can edit it while it's stickin'
- DanielP [to Marcus]:
- it was just rubbish
- Chrysolite_Guest says:
- I got it!"
- Marcus [to traven]:
- try to edit it so that it doesnt have the '"'
- Marcus claps Frank
- Traven finishes with its note Editing and rejoins you in the room.
- DanielP sits down at Teacher's Desk. . .
- Traven reads a note on the Consultant's List.
- Marcus [to consultants]:
- You know, this week it may be helpful if you try your
- own office hours already and advise students in case they drop by.
- Marcus says:
- ..and to know whether the hours are really ok for you
- PeterMR says:
- "marcus - if I want tp post to the consultants list - do I
- @create $note called <something> first?"
- Marcus nods Peter
- DanielP reads a note on the Consultant's List.
- Traven [to Marcus]:
- When does the actual course now begin? And what do you
- expect to happen?
- Marcus says:
- "the bulletin board is already relativel complex...$note is useful b/c
- you cn also MAIL it to yourself."
- Marcus [to Traven]:
- ok, this is a delicate topic :)
- PeterMR says:
- I got object ownership quota exceeeded!
- Marcus says:
- shit. no wizards logged in...(-> @wizards)
- Marcus [to PeterMR]:
- cannot do anything now..need to wait or you must @recycle
- another object
- Marcus [to Chrysolite_Guest]:
- did you send a request for account to the Email
- address?
- Marcus [to Traven]:
- have talked a lot with Daniel about this.
- PeterMR says:
- is the whole MOO full up? cos I have only two oibjects!
- Traven says:
- I've browsed through your recording.
- Marcus has 70 :)
- Marcus [to PeterMR]:
- do @audit me
- you have some junk :) you dont need the recorder right
- now. if i demonstrate, we take another one
- Marcus says:
- "for quota, do @wizards - then PAGE a wizard, say you are a consultant
- for C++ and NEED more quota"
- Chrysolite_Guest says:
- Am I Chrysolite_Guest?" to Marcus
- Marcus nods Chrysolithe
- Chrysolite_Guest says:
- I did send a request for account "
- Marcus [to Traven]:
- ok, we should get to a decision:
- DanielP [to Marcus]:
- What is the "agenda" for today?
- Marcus [to Traven]:
- tomorrow or thursday I want to send an improved syllabus
- for the first week or month to the students. it will contain:
- _________________
- | |
- Marcus holds up a BIG sign: | Daniel's Survey |
- |_________________|
- __________________________
- | |
- Marcus holds up a BIG sign: | What'll happen in Week 1 |
- |__________________________|
- ___________________________________________
- | |
- Marcus holds up a BIG sign: | Which chapters/programs are ready for use |
- |___________________________________________|
- _____________________
- | |
- Marcus holds up a BIG sign: | How to get started. |
- |_____________________|
- Traven [to Marcus]:
- Oops, then I've to catch up with my chapter :)
- PeterMR says:
- Hi traven - which chapter are you?
- Marcus [to Traven]:
- NO, b/c chapter 5 wont be needed during the first 3 weeks
- at LEAST
- Traven [to Traven]:
- Chapter 5
- Traven says:
- Stupid. Talk to myself.
- Marcus says:
- "Chapters 1 + 2 need to be usable. Dunno about 2 yet, but 1 (with
- PeterMR's help!) should be until sunday."
- Traven says:
- "I think it makes sense to be as fast as possible. I'm a rocket
- man ..."
- Traven grins
- PeterMR says:
- "Marcus - I'm sorry I couln't send the exmple progs today -
- couldn't get to the tape reader. I might try kermitting them this evening
- later."
- Marcus says:
- "I will send the draft around on the list for your input. I cn also
- make a chain - going alphabetically and everyone adds his pieces. what od you
- think?"
- Marcus [to PeterMR]:
- Ok- as Daniel said, we are expecting a few days to pass by
- at least for the studentsto get USED to this. and us to be able to be
- effective.
- Marcus looks around - agreement?
- Traven nods.
- DanielP nods
- Marcus says:
- what about the weely meeting: shall we be flexible or fix a date?
- Traven says:
- What about the grouping of students? How do we handle that?
- PeterMR says:
- "yes. And I think it will take students another week to compile
- the first lot of prgs. For example, I'd like to come back with a recommended
- saet of compilker flagfs for Borland."
- Marcus says:
- I think we should have one more initial meeting, too.
- Marcus [to DanielP]:
- ?
- DanielP thought it was sunday at 19h
- Marcus eyes Daniel for the VSPO
- DanielP [to Marcus]:
- Don't think taht I have it, and haven't seen a wiz since
- then
- MikeP is not currently logged in.
- Marcus [to DanielP]:
- maybe explaining the basic idea now
- as far as we know... :)
- Traven [to Marcus]:
- What's VSPO?
- PeterMR says:
- "yes. And I think it will take students another week to compile
- the first lot of prgs. For example, I'd like to come back with a recommended
- saet of compilk"Marcus - how do I speak to one person (the square brackets)?"
- DanielP well I don't think taht the details of VSPO is really important right
- now but do we want to get a bunch of students assigned to a consultant for the
- whole course or we let then float
- Marcus nods
- Marcus says:
- our BIG number, ca. 66
- DanielP for more inof on VSPO type Help #1939
- Marcus [to PeterMR]:
- speak to ONE person: `<name> TEXT
- Traven says:
- Thanx
- PeterMR says:
- thanks - please excuse my garbles
- Marcus nods
- Marcus [to Traven]:
- VSPO means that we can partially handle registration
- ourselves.
- Marcus [to Traven]:
- in addition..
- Traven [to Marcus]:
- "I see. Dan points me to the help
- Marcus [to Traven]:
- ...here is a 'roster' command in this room which will set
- registry for students attending NOW - to be undisturbed from intruders
- Marcus is just writing mail to *wizards collecting all that's needed (accounts,
- VSPO, quota etc.)
- DanielP [to Marcus]:
- about this roster thing, do it means taht if the In
- Session sign is on and you are not on the roster list you can't get in
- PeterMR says:
- "can you give any very general overview of the ability and
- experience of the students? School , college, postgrad? and are they newbie
- programmers or topping up their knowledge?"
- Traven says:
- I think, we will find all types.
- Marcus [to DanielP]:
- exactly. when the door is closed - but this feature is not
- active yet.
- Marcus nods Traven - exactly
- DanielP nods
- Marcus [to PeterMR]:
- more -> Dan's survey
- as usual, to get the survey from all 66 will take another
- week...few reply immediately.
- Marcus [to PeterMR]:
- as dan pointed out, this addsto the REALITY of the course
- experience
- DanielP [to Marcus]:
- Did you sent it yet?
- Traven says:
- This will lead to some problems, I suppose.
- The heterogeneity.
- PeterMR says:
- "Oh I don't mind at all - I'm used to mixed ability groups. the
- skill is to get *them* to accept that that is a virtue"
- Marcus [to DanielP]:
- should I? I expect upon my first mail after quite a break
- the students to FLOOD me with questions:WHEN . to avoid this, I wantedto send
- the survey and the syllabus in one stroke
- Marcus [to DanielP]:
- maybe YOU could send it...?
- (Marcus thinks: gna-c++-students@tsun.desy.de )
- Marcus [to DanielP]:
- in fact, the earlier, the better. please do it.
- maybe prepended by a sentence that precise instruction
- list for the start will follow asap.
- Traven says:
- Don't forget the Reply-to field :)
- Marcus [to Traven]:
- yes, reply to gna-c++-consultants@tsun.desy.de
- Marcus says:
- In fact, 1 out of 10 will get the reply wrong...
- Marcus sighs - or 5 out of 10....
- Marcus smiles
- Traven [to Marcus]:
- So we should all keep up to date in a distributed manner?
- DanielP Well this will give us an idea of the level of the student? Let me go
- to do it immediatly
- Marcus [to Traven]:
- well, IF you all want to see the survey results?
- alternatively, we can store them away - but then nobody
- will look at the file ever...
- Marcus [to DanielP]:
- and dont forget the DATA protection paragraph...
- PeterMR says:
- "Marcus - is this *our* generic classroom? Can we assume that we
- can find all the relevant tools here? or do we have to hop back and forward to
- different rooms"
- Marcus nods Peter.
- Marcus [to PeterMR]:
- THIS is it. brand new, in fact the creator spend some time
- with me today and we figured a lot of bugs. and he fixed them.
- Traven [to Marcus]:
- No sending the survey to all of us is ok.
- Marcus [to PeterMR]:
- if not satisfied: @send Ken suggestions.
- PeterMR says:
- "One thing I'm having to adjust to is that when there are
- sesveral people in a room, it's not always easy to know where the discussion is
- going. So I'm never sure when to bring up a new subject :-)"
- Traven [to PeterMR]:
- That's also my problem ...
- Marcus nods. by letting them sit down and "stifle on" you should be able to
- keep them quiet...the have to use SPEAKUP like in school.
- PeterMR says:
- "I'll be quite honest - I find the pace of some of the
- discussions quite challenging. I'm quite content at present to listen to
- others :-). I cannot walk and chew gum at the same time :-)"
- Marcus is aware that this is new ground also for discipline...you shouldnt have
- more than 5 at a time together, I expect. that's why we are 6 (or 7).
- Marcus takes PeterMR's gum and glues it under the Teacher's Desk :)
- Marcus says:
- when discussing: make sure you GOT it. rather ask again and again.
- Traven [to Speakup]:
- will not function when every student uses it.
- (Traven thinks: damn )
- Marcus says:
- "also: use the recorder. i can show any time how it works. to try it
- yourself: READ #4188"
- Marcus [to Traven]:
- in theoret physics classes there is no problem b/c there
- are FEW students who WANT to speak :)
- Marcus [to Traven]:
- expect the same if we are talking tough stuff. in the
- beginning, with MOO questions: expect CHAOS :)
- PeterMR says:
- "When I lecture (in rl) I have a different problem - the students
- spend half their time glued to their terminals. So I have to tell them to
- switch them off. But I think we are going to have to have fairly clear agendas
- - e.g. NEXT FIVE MINS we talk abou"
- Marcus laffs
- PeterMR says:
- sory for the garble
- Marcus [to PeterMR]:
- also: you CAN prepare lectures. there is a Generic Lecture
- object
- Marcus nods Peter's suggestions, btw
- Traven says:
- Bye, Vince!
- Marcus says:
- "generalon this room: the hierarchy of who can do what in this room
- will be fixed this week!"
- Marcus says:
- not everyone can 'session on' and 'register' as it is now.
- PeterMR says:
- "marcus :-) in the last 3-4 days I have been told about 100
- different objects! I can only learn how to use a few. "
- Marcus says:
- "Lemme say: by May 1 this room will be stable, that's wht Ken promised
- :)"
- Marcus [to PeterMR]:
- Have a notebook ready next to your terminal.....write down
- numbers nd when you are alone, try them.
- Marcus is quite serious, that's how he started.
- PeterMR says:
- "I draw an analogy with videoconferencing which I do a bit of.
- there there is only a 1 sec lag, but it's still enough to make random
- conversation difficult. I always ask fo an agenda."
- Marcus guesses to become sort of comfortable means 8 hours of thorough,
- concentrated work. better NOT socialize in the meantime...
- Marcus nods
- Marcus [to DanielP]:
- Received the survey.
- Traven [to DanielP]:
- Me too.
- PeterMR says:
- "I'm actually able to record the whole session to a local file.
- Then I will distill it into help buttons"
- Marcus [to DanielP]:
- sounds good...WHEN IS THE COURSE [imitating impatient
- students ;) ]
- Marcus visualizes Peter's help-button-collection....
- Marcus [to PeterMR]:
- I have a stamp collection to show around only ;-)
- Traven says:
- How do I record a session?
- PeterMR says:
- when I double click on the word marcus it does @examine marcus.
- DanielP somebody used the phone, soe I lost all my buffer, please some of you
- get their buffer of this meeting and mail it to me
- Marcus says:
- "important addition to the syllabus mail: on clients. this may still
- take 2 days..just got the help blurp from MikeP which I wil send to all of you
- (including FrankChen)"
- Marcus nods Daniel - I shall record from now on.
- Marcus says:
- will send this to all.
- DanielP fine with me
- Marcus turns the Recorder on.
- ____________
- | |
- Marcus holds up a BIG sign: | Recording. |
- |____________|
- Traven [to Marcus]:
- How did you do that?
- Kryptonite_Guest arrives from nowhere.
- Kryptonite_Guest has disconnected.
- Assistants of the local psychology institute arrive to cart Kryptonite_Guest off to their dream-research labs.
- DanielP Did you made any decision on assigning students to consultants vs letting them float
- (DanielP thinks: Which other contents? )
- Pearl_Guest says:
- hi
- Marcus [to DanielP]:
- let us discuss that.
- Quartz_Guest arrives from nowhere.
- Marcus [to DanielP]:
- I would say, again, that we have to wait what structure cystallizes. for example it is unlikely that a student will be on ALL the time. he may try some consultants, then find HIS time and HIS man.
- _______________________________
- | |
- Marcus holds up a BIG sign: | any future C++ students here? |
- |_______________________________|
- Marcus [to Traven]:
- you see locking the door is essential... :)
- Marcus [to DanielP]:
- what do you think?
- Pearl_Guest says:
- printf("who knows...");
- PeterMR says:
- please marcus, how to I write on my note. If I type write on concultant_info it simply adds a blank line!
- Marcus eyes Pearl_Guest
- Marcus [to PeterMR]:
- you dont want to use @notedit? you gotta say WRITE "...." ON INFO
- Traven [to Marcus]:
- What when some consultant is overwhelmed with students because they find his time ok?
- Marcus [to Traven]:
- unlikely for me - i am on early morning :)
- Pearl_Guest suddenly disappears.
- Marcus [to Traven]:
- but thats a good remark..well - opinions?
- DanielP [to Marcus]:
- I believe taht we should still plan ahead
- Marcus [to DanielP]:
- you were sure you want a small group - but how to choose them?
- Traven says:
- Flexible schedules. :)
- Marcus nods - surely.
- Marcus [to Traven]:
- or never be online :)
- DanielP I was sure, but I also mentionned taht I had doubts about this now
- Marcus [to Chrysolite_Guest]:
- still with us?
- PeterMR steps into the Note-Editing booth where you can no longer reach him except via a page.
- Marcus nods Dan. another way would be to ASK the students.
- Ken bops in to check things out...
- Traven says:
- We should ask them, when they will join us.
- DanielP taht's our problem now, we have too few info on the student group at the moment
- Ken says:
- door should work now..
- Traven says:
- Yup.
- (Traven thinks: to Dan )
- Marcus [to Ken]:
- let us try it.
- Marcus adds a name to the class list...
- Ken says:
- ok!
- Lapis_Guest has arrived.
- Marcus removes a name from the class list...
- Marcus closes the door to GNA C++ Class...
- Marcus turns on the 'Class in Session' sign...
- Ken eagerly waits to see if anybody can walk in..
- Marcus [to Ken]:
- youre not on the roster..try
- DanielP if the students are mature enough and willing to participate quite a bit then It would be very different than if they expect us to take them by the hand every steps of the way
- Ken has disconnected.
- Lapis_Guest goes out.
- Traven says:
- I again suppose we have both types of students :)
- Ken has connected.
- Marcus [to DanielP]:
- I tried to make this clear - that the big fee for this course is to help to make it happen.
- Ken goes home.
- The wall twists and groans as it tries to force itself into the shape of Ken. With a crack it snaps back into shape.
- _________________
- | |
- Marcus holds up a BIG sign: | the door works! |
- |_________________|
- DanielP [to Marcus]:
- But how do we translate this into reality?
- The wall twists and groans as it tries to force itself into the shape of Ken. With a crack it snaps back into shape.
- Marcus [to DanielP]:
- i see no other way than trying it for a short while. then draw conclusions and fix the rules anew.
- Marcus opens the door to GNA C++ Class. . .
- Ken bops in to check things out...
- Ken says:
- thanks!
- Zircon_Guest arrives from nowhere.
- DanielP Sometimes I wonder If we should not change the title from GNA c++ course to GNA c++ learning experience?
- Marcus laffs....
- (Marcus thinks: sourly! )
- DanielP nods
- Ken has disconnected.
- Marcus [to DanielP]:
- I think it is sufficiently clear that this is not a course from the college at the next corner...
- otherwise, propose a rule - then we start trying that out - will be a better skeleton than no skeleton, perhaps
- Zircon_Guest says:
- Don't you said the door works?, How can I get in?(Frank)" to Marcus
- Ken has connected.
- Traven says:
- Sure. But this all leads to the same thing: We need to know more about the students.
- Ken groans his flakey connection..
- Ken sits down at Big Table. . .
- Zircon_Guest has disconnected.
- Assistants of the local psychology institute arrive to cart Zircon_Guest off to their dream-research labs.
- DanielP [to tra]:
- Let's assume that we are going to have the most diverse bunch, taht's a very realistic assumption
- PeterMR finishes with his note Editing and rejoins you in the room.
- Marcus [to DanielP]:
- ...willing to learn. filled with enthusiasm up to the neck.
- Marcus [to PeterMR]:
- we're discussing how to shape the course, maybe you'd stay
- DanielP [to Marcus]:
- So our task is to keep this enthusiasm
- Ken has disconnected.
- PeterMR says:
- I can't write my note yet - so I'll stay and talk!
- Marcus [to DanielP]:
- none of the self-descriptions I have read sounded like "I want to be served c++ on a silver plate"...
- Traven [to Marcus]:
- I don't have one, do you?
- Marcus got the FIRST survey answer....
- Marcus [to Traven]:
- ALL descriptions: available via WAIS.
- if you have Mosaic, you have that too.
- see on the Whatsnew page....
- Traven [to Marcus]:
- I mean the silver plate ... :)
- Marcus recommends the consultants re-check the info on WWW ...:)
- Marcus [to Traven]:
- oh....
- DanielP If we assign the students to consultants than I supposed taht the students will expect more thing will come from above than If we tell them to take part of the organization
- Marcus drops Silver Plate with C++ on It.
- Marcus points at the plate [grin]
- Marcus [to DanielP]:
- I think you're right.
- Traven [to DanielP]:
- I agree
- PeterMR [to Marcus]:
- are you assuming that most people have simultaneous access to WWW and the MOO. cos *I* don't unless we get a lynx browser in the MOO...
- DanielP :-)
- Traven says:
- I think the students must read through the chapters, try to solve the example programs, and just ask questions when they discover them.
- Marcus [to PeterMR]:
- i dont have it simulatneously - only via my Xterminal. during the course, an object for WWW & MUD shall be available
- >> Network buffer overflow: 41 lines of output to you have been lost <<
- Marcus [to DanielP]:
- I think this is not true for all students.
- DanielP I like the project idea now
- Marcus has received complaints about extending the start phase too long. there may be students who are ready to spend 8 hours here in a row - then they'll be better than we are (in MOOing)
- Marcus nods Dan's 2nd argument
- Etah **************************************************************************
- PeterMR says:
- Don't underestimate the importance of the basic technology. Make a virtue of it, since it relates to real life and it's what they have to solve if they are going to *use* the language. And *I* think that the MOO is very useful in getting OO ideas over
- Etah takes a look at Marcus.
- Marcus nods Peter - is longer on MOO than others, that is right.
- PeterMR says:
- BTW - my lines get truncated at 256 chars. Is that a MOO characteristic, or a telnet one? (I'll have to tweak my GUI :-))
- DanielP [to Marcus]:
- I guess some will be lagging behind but If we get teh students support then some students should help the weaker one (not only us), so we should minimize the distinction between students and consultants
- Etah takes a look at Traven.
- Etah flies away and vanishes into a cloud.
- PeterMR says:
- I agree with Daniel. After all, the students are doing this for their own satisfaction and they're not paying us
- Marcus [to DanielP]:
- this is a very good idea to stimulate them!
- Traven [to PeterMR]:
- Not yet :)
- Marcus nods heavily
- Marcus looks in his pocket - never mind a fast buck :)
- Amber_Guest has disconnected.
- Assistants of the local psychology institute arrive to cart Amber_Guest off to their dream-research labs.
- PeterMR says:
- I use this a lot. I had one guy in my class who was a wiz but a loner. By the end of 6 weeks he was going round all the students and helping them.
- Marcus [to PeterMR]:
- this environment stimulates this kind of behaviour, from my experiecne:
- DanielP I personnaly like to MOO quite a bit, but I realize that this is an evolving environment, it is not very user friendly, I don't mind, but less experience ppl will might
- Marcus [to PeterMR]:
- ...anonymity helps.
- PeterMR says:
- Are the *students* likely to spend a lot of their time MOOing? cos if they do, there is a lot that they will be able to teach each other
- Marcus [to PeterMR]:
- if i had to do it again, this would be a MOO-OOP course, frankly.
- ...there is NO decent tutorial. Well, we talk about this after the summer, I guess.
- Peridot_Guest arrives from nowhere.
- (DanielP thinks: mind <- )
- PeterMR says:
- ah - you mean not using C++, and using the MOO concept to teach OO - I'd go along with that. But there *is* a real world need for C++, and who knows what we might manage.
- Marcus [to PeterMR]:
- to answer: i guess they will be MOOing...the big percentage writes that they want OOP, not too many know that they want C++ specifically. they'll realize the range of MOO language quickly, I;d think
- Marcus nods - i doubt that anyone took a job requring C++ and only depends on this course though. You mentioned this before.
- PeterMR says:
- One thing we had at work was VAXNOTES - a very basic consferencing system, but I ran a self-help group on firstly C programming and then on C++. Worked pretty well. There were people there that I never met!
- (DanielP thinks: C++ is a good marketing tool )
- Marcus nods Dan.
- PeterMR says:
- In fact - I think it's important to stress the mail/newsgroup. If I can find out how to actually use this mailer :-), I would tend to use that a *lot*. I
- Traven says:
- It's our job to keep the theme of the course to C++, whether we are MOOing or not.
- Marcus cannotfind vaxnotes on their Vax.
- (PeterMR thinks: it's a very useful alternative to talking. )
- Marcus reminds all consultants to set @mailoptions +netmail
- Ken bops in to check things out...
- Peridot_Guest says:
- What does that do (@mailoptions)?
- DanielP Well, two years ago when I left for HK, there was something like 8 to 15 messages per day on comp.lang.c++ now it is probably 50 to 100 per day. So C++ is a big attraction right now
- PeterMR says:
- For eaxmple, we had probably about 400 NOTES on the VAX on C, and some were > 200 lines - full programs. And people don't have to rush at them. So (I'm thinking out loud),
- Traven says:
- In my opinion it's the language of our decade ...
- Marcus stores Traven's opinion away in a locker and pulls out "Zz" - later...
- PeterMR says:
- VAX NOTES is a costs-money. If you've got it, type NOTES. But we only used it becos noone other than me wanted UNIX. No I'm winning through.
- DanielP [to PeterMR]:
- Would like to know more about your experience
- Ken asks marcus to please: @chmod here.session_msg +w for test purposes...
- Marcus [to PeterMR]:
- me too - email is good for that.
- Marcus [to Ken]:
- Done.
- PeterMR says:
- Like many other orgs, we became monolithic. So I used VAXNOTES as a subculture to spread the word about UNIX, C, C++ etc
- Gradually I built up a club of ca. 10 people who would discuss (ca. 5 notes/day) C programming problems. We started from scratch (e.g. when to put braces in...)
- Ken turns on @who room message to read: 'GNA C++ Class (In Session...)'.
- Ricardo has arrived.
- Ken turns @who room message back to: 'GNA C++ Class'.
- Marcus waves Ricardo = future student
- Ken turns on @who room message to read: 'GNA C++ Class (In Session...)'.
- PeterMR says:
- I would be happy to help get some structured discussion off the ground in mail - presumably we can have threads, etc?
- Ricardo waves to hello to all.
- PeterMR wave
- Marcus [to PeterMR]:
- what about a MOO list for the course?
- DanielP I really like Peter idea and believe we should try to implement something similar here
- Marcus [to PeterMR]:
- or you mean Email?
- everyone can create a mailing list...btw. Dan suggested gna-c++-help which is in place - shall we use this or not?
- Ruby_Guest arrives from nowhere.
- Jeanne drops down from the sky, her wizard flying-dust finally wearing off.
- Peridot_Guest has disconnected.
- Assistants of the local psychology institute arrive to cart Peridot_Guest off to their dream-research labs.
- Ken greets jeanne
- Jeanne goes home.
- PeterMR says:
- What I want is a central resource where everyone's contributions can be read at any time. So I might open a topic under Compilers and write a NOte, and otehrs would reply to the note. then someone else might open a topic
- about virtual functions, ans someone else on how to build a classroom, etc
- Ken perks up at the word 'compilers'... his pet love..
- Marcus thinks about Peter's request...
- PeterMR [to Ken]:
- what do you like about them - or do you write them?
- Traven says:
- Doesnt' this lead to 'topic-mania'?
- Marcus laffs - Ken writing compilers....
- Ken says:
- well, uh, I teach a course in compiler design..
- Marcus claps - wanna learn / teach C++ :-) ?
- PeterMR says:
- well the students don't *have* to read the discussions. And very often you get
- Ken also teaches c++ <grin>
- Marcus has no clue as of yet how to iplement this model here...
- PeterMR says:
- a student who is good at answerinf other people's queries. Well worth trying
- DanielP If we assume the worst case scenaria and students get feed up with the MOO and this and that I think that e-mail is a safer bet
- Marcus [to PeterMR]:
- so a MOO list wouldnt do? it would be nice to have VAXNOTES it seems, but we havent ;(
- Ken [to Marcus]:
- i would love to teach her, but at present i am just too busy.. but keep me in mind :)
- Marcus nods DanielP - this is the gna-c++-help option. A list which we can use anyway
- Marcus nods Ken... [scribbling in his notebook]
- (Ricardo thinks: I wish I had Ken's photograph to hang on by bedroom wall :-) )
- PeterMR [to Marcus]:
- two other technologies (in the real world) are xdsc (discuss) and NEWS. I would have thought that maybe MOOers would have emulated them?
- Ken laffs with Ricardo
- Marcus proposes a MOOvie of Ken made by Ricardo.
- Ricardo laffs *very* loud
- DanielP [to Marcus]:
- My idea for gna-c++-help is a user-friendly place for newbie to get help
- PeterMR says:
- VAXNotes is fairly primitive. Can we not have communal mailing lists which have different threads. Or different list for different topics. remember I know nothing about MOO technology
- Marcus nods Daniel
- (DanielP thinks: rapid help )
- Marcus [to DanielP]:
- i am a bit afraid at the organizational overload of Peter's idea...though it's nice. sounds more like an aftermath to me - or something for a second course.
- Marcus [to PeterMR]:
- at present i can only make lists of mailaliases. i dont even have a listserv.
- Ken steps into the Note-Editing booth where you can no longer reach him except via a page.
- Ken finishes with his note Editing and rejoins you in the room.
- Ken drops Slide Projector.
- Roger goes home.
- Ricardo wonders if it would be difficult to implement a listserv
- Marcus puts the organization of mailing lists UP FOR GRABS... [hint hint]
- Marcus [to Ricardo]:
- i just odnt have the time....
- Ken [to Ricardo]:
- 'show 7 on slide projector ' to see my picture.. grin
- DanielP As everybody I am too new to MOOing, but I guess that we can find something to be done in the MOO (another projects for students?)
- PeterMR says:
- OK - but we need somewhere where the students and us can write fairly comprehensive documents and read them at our leisure. And also find out what is there without having to remember too much.
- Marcus [to DanielP]:
- hardly anyone more experiecned than Ken....Ken?
- Ricardo [to Ken]:
- Jesus Christ, Ken I did think you wre more handsome than this.
- Ken hides behind desk..
- Ken drops Slide Projector.
- Marcus sees his mailbox filling steadily with surveys
- Ken hmmms
- Diamond_Guest arrives from nowhere.
- Diamond_Guest says:
- hello people.)
- Marcus waves Guest
- Ken goes home.
- DanielP has to go to pick up her daughter at the kindergarden, will be back in 20 minutes
- Diamond_Guest says:
- hows it going marcus
- Marcus [to DanielP]:
- I am not sure either what to write for the mail to students.
- Ken bops in to check things out...
- Ken drops Slide Projector.
- Ricardo wonders what would be necessary to set a listserv, besides time, of course.
- Marcus [to Diamond_Guest]:
- online since 14 hours...
- Diamond_Guest [to marcus,]:
- working or just enjoying?
- Marcus [to Ricardo]:
- standard software you can pick from here...you better be a ROOT/superuser on a machine
- PeterMR says:
- hi diamond
- Marcus [to Diamond_Guest]:
- the distinction has blurred...
- Diamond_Guest [to PeterMR]:
- hi pasl
- ___________________________________________
- | |
- | anybody volunteers to draft a last letter |
- Marcus holds up a BIG sign: | to students before May 1? |
- |___________________________________________|
- Marcus is getting desperate :( :(
- PeterMR [to Marcus]:
- I really liked your quote from DEK on the beauty of compuer programming
- Marcus [to PeterMR]:
- on the Web?
- Diamond_Guest [to Marcus]:
- owell
- Marcus [to PeterMR]:
- well, we'll chat on that: MY next course will be on literate programming - this year [yes!]
- PeterMR [to Marcus]:
- yes. It elevates (as I have always felt, to an art as well as a science)
- Diamond_Guest [to marcus..so]:
- are you an instructor here on DU?
- Marcus [to Diamond_Guest]:
- Yes.
- Ken says:
- hmmm, the gna recorder and the slide projector interfere with one another...
- Ricardo [to Marcus]:
- I could try to do that if I knew how..
- Marcus [to Diamond_Guest]:
- so are PeterMR, DanielP, Traven....
- Ken drops GNA recorder.
- Ken says:
- hmmmm....
- Marcus [to Diamond_Guest]:
- I hope you can all directly profit from the discussions we're having here right now. Yes.
- PeterMR [to Ken]:
- I bet you didn't draw that using @write to note...
- Ken says:
- the recorder doesnt like to record slides...
- Ken grins petermr
- Diamond_Guest [to marcus..actually]:
- i am:0 thanks. so have anyone seenm La Traviata?
- Marcus hopes everyone will find HIS messages in the clutter of Email from the survey...
- Diamond_Guest suddenly disappears.
- Marcus [to PeterMR]:
- Can you or whoever is last here, type TURN RECORDER OFF , please, when it's over ?
- Ken guesses that recorder will also go nuts over recording tv shows... hmmm
- Traven says:
- Can someone summarizes where we currently are in our discussion?
- Ken says:
- must be all the electrical interference..
- Ken goes home.
- Marcus [to Traven]:
- Ok, I'll try:
- 1) Agreement on chapter/week organization and minimum 1st week for
- MOOing (basically)"
- 2) Using gna-c++-help@tsun.desy.de (= list of consultants) for HELP
- with fast turnaround (< 24 hours)"
- 3) Trying to survive week 1 without a strict assignment student X ->
- consultant Y "
- 4) Chapters 1-4 ready for use (self-paced) until this weekend !!!"
- 5) all consultants online on the MOO with sufficient quota by this
- week"
- 6) all consultants fixed preliminary office hours for week 1 -
- entering WWW and MOO schedules"
- 7) Visiting Player Class Object (MOO registration of students) and
- C++ Classroom up and working by this week."
- PeterMR says:
- I break most of what I touch here. Is that what I type? And do I have the privilege
- Ricardo says:
- Let me remind you all that I do have some time to spare. I do not have root priviledges though (except in my Linux box :-).
- Marcus [to Ricardo]:
- I suggest you talk to PeterMR who has the idea of a help-list-with-notes clearest in his mind...
- Ricardo [to PeterMR]:
- Okay PeterMR, perhaps we can exchange some e-mail...
- I gotta leave now... this is my add: rxn106@cac.psu.edu
- Ricardo waves goodbye to all.
- Marcus [to Traven]:
- This is what I think is decided...
- Traven waves
- PeterMR says:
- Ricardo - my e-mail is <pmr1716@ggr.co.uk>. I answer it fairly promptly, unlike bits of pulped wood, which lie on my floor
- Marcus will try to craft an anouncmend around these guidelines.
- (Marcus thinks: My wife's pulling the plug! )
- Ricardo thanks Marcus once more.
- Marcus [to Traven]:
- ok as a summary?
- Marcus [to Ricardo]:
- we thank you, rick!
- Marcus waves, tired as a well-done T-bone....
- Ricardo has disconnected.
- Traven eyes get smaller and smaller.
- Marcus [to traver]:
- OUR time zone....
- Marcus smiles, sadly
- Traven [to Marcus]:
- Yup. It's too late for such talks ...
- Traven sighs.
- Banjo music announces the arrival of EddieLee
- Marcus lits a virtual cigarette...
- ..Thick clouds of smoke are slowly drifting through the room.
- Banjo music signals the departure of EddieLee
- Marcus [to PeterMR]:
- try TURN RECORDER OFF
- PeterMR turns the Recorder on.
- PeterMR says:
- I can turn it back on - like EEyore
- Marcus nods - ok
- DanielP is back
- DanielP waves
- Marcus [to DanielP]:
- I gave a summary - scroll back and send me the reply via Email
- Marcus stands up from Teacher's Desk. . .
- Marcus goes home.
- Assistants of the local psychology institute arrive to cart Ricardo off to their dream-research labs.
- DanielP [to PeterMR]:
- Can you give a little more of the nuts and bolts of your application of vaxnote to programming?
- Quartz_Guest has disconnected.
- Assistants of the local psychology institute arrive to cart Quartz_Guest off to their dream-research labs.
- DanielP For example, any distributed programming assignment?
- Traven waves goodbye.
- DanielP waves Traven
- Traven goes home.
- DanielP takes a look at PeterMR.
- DanielP Is Chrysolite_Guest Bill?
- Ruby_Guest says:
- Ruby guest sis Bill
- DanielP [to Ruby_Guest]:
- Is it your first visit here?
- Ruby_Guest says:
- This is my 5th or so visit.
- Chrysolite_Guest says:
- Chrysolite_Guest is Frank. I just got my account/password"
- FrankC arrives from nowhere.
- DanielP [to Ruby_Guest]:
- What is your opinion on the suitability of this env to teach C++?
- DanielP waves FrankC
- Ruby_Guest says:
- I think is has advantages over e-mail
- FrankC says:
- "hello" to DanielP
- Ruby_Guest says:
- Besides Moo, you also have Mosaic to read the notes on C++
- That is good also
- DanielP [to Ruby_Guest]:
- Yes but the Web is much more user-friendly than the MOO
- DanielP I still wonder about the reaction of the students to this env
- PeterMR says:
- I agree with daniel. The Web is revolutionary.
- I think this will *really* take off when there is a WWW interface to the MOO
- I'm off to see Linda for a minute... back soon
- PeterMR suddenly disappears.
- DanielP Any of you had experience teaching C++ before?
- FrankC says:
- Not me!"
- Ruby_Guest says:
- No
- DanielP me neither, I have taught Pascal, Modula 2, assembly, and C but never had the chance to teach C++
- FrankC says:
- I am teaching to a group of 7-9th grader about intro to computer(including PASCAL) every Saturday"
- DanielP [to How]:
- is it going?
- DanielP has to go for dinner shorthly
- Garnet_Guest has arrived.
- Chrysolite_Guest got to go home.
- Chrysolite_Guest bye
- DanielP bye Chris
- Garnet_Guest says:
- How long does it take to get a character here?
- (DanielP thinks: no idea )
- FrankC says:
- bye everyone.
- FrankC has disconnected.